Hello! Intimate Intercourse is a new series where I interview my boyfriend/Sir/daddy, who goes by Super Sleepy Dude, about various topics related to sex and kink. The first topic we tackled is phone sex, and it turns out we had a lot to say about it – who would’ve thought?! – so I’ve split this interview up into 3 parts, which will go up over the course of this week. In this first part, we discuss the overall joys of phone sex and some of the skills involved in it. Enjoy!
Kate Sloan: What skills do you think someone needs to develop to be good at phone sex?
Super Sleepy: I think there a few key skills you need to be good at phone sex. One of them is knowing what to say, and when to say it. That comes from a lot of practice and a lot of, actually, the second skill that I think is important, which is like, really closely monitoring the person – or people, I guess; I’ve never had phone sex with multiple people at the same time, but…
KS: It’s possible!
SS: It’s possible, I guess! Party line! Um, monitoring the person’s reactions and then, like, over time, if you’re having phone sex with this person multiple times, remembering what they responded to, and what ordering of sounds and words and ideas work for them. It’s similar to how, if you’re having sex with somebody in person, you get to know their body and their responses better over time. And you can do the same thing if you listen really closely.
And then the third one is kind of the creativity one. It’s coming up with new stuff, so that you’re not just constantly saying the same few things over and over again. New scenarios, new things to roleplay, settings, toys can be helpful… The mixing-it-up part.
KS: You’ve said to me before that you think you have a phone-sex kink. What does that mean to you? How does that manifest for you?
SS: I think, like a lot of my kinks, this is something that goes back pretty early in my sexuality. Like, when I was a teenager and I caught glimpses of TV ads for phone sex lines, I was always really interested in what would happen if I called them. And when I first started dating, a lot of the early flirtation and first times that sex came up with people I was flirting with or dating was over the phone, because we didn’t have cars, didn’t have an easy way to see each other right away, so I got really into flirting and also turning on the person that I was with, with my voice, over the phone. And I think that those things together solidified into it being able to turn me on, on its own, as an idea.
KS: What do you get out of it that you don’t get out of in-person sex?
SS: I don’t know that that’s quite how I would put it. I don’t know that I get a thing out of it that I can’t get out of in-person sex. It’s like how a blindfold works, in that, if you take away a sense, the other senses can get stronger. Like, if I close my eyes and I’m lying by myself, touching myself, and hear the person that I’m really into on the other side of the phone, I only have so much information to go on – just the things I can hear, and the things I can feel in my body – and those things get more intense, because I’m not processing a bunch of visual information, or touch information from another person, or scent. I have to imagine all that stuff, and the stuff that I do have, I can pay so much more attention to it.
KS: Yeah, that makes sense. And then, do you – I mean, I know the answer to this is yes, but – do you use the information that you get from phone sex for IRL sex?
SS: Yes, but I think it’s important to be careful about that, because it’s a different situation. So you can’t carry over consent. If somebody consents to something in a phone-sex scenario, you can’t just do that with them in person, ‘cause that’s not how that works.
KS: Yeah.
SS: And also, desires are different. Like I know that in our phone sex, we’ve done stuff that you’ve said you might not be into in person. And that’s a really good thing to check in on, because when you’re by yourself, safely, in your room, and it’s just voice, and nothing can make you feel a physical sensation without you doing it, it’s much easier to try stuff out that you’re not sure about, because there’s less risk involved. Less physical risk, I mean. Maybe there’s the same amount of emotional risk.
KS: Yeah. Well, I don’t know, though. I think it’s different.
SS: It feels different, and it feels safer to try stuff out. More like a brainstorm.
KS: Yeah. The other side of that is like, I think I pretty much would never wanna be dommy during phone sex, because that’s just not really how my dominance manifests. It’s more about doing stuff than saying stuff, I think. So I feel safer being dommy in person, which I didn’t realize until…
SS: Right. We realized that by me wanting that from you and you not quite knowing why that felt wrong to you, but that seems like a perfect encapsulation of it. ‘Cause you get satisfaction from the feedback loop of actually doing the thing. What is it about doing versus saying that can flip that switch for you?
KS: It’s really hard to pinpoint. I think part of it is, there are physical activities that I can do that put me in a dominant headspace, like facesitting or face-slapping, and I’m finding that if I can’t do those, it’s very hard for me to force myself into that headspace. But also, I feel like I’m just not a verbally confident person in general – which sounds weird, ‘cause I have a podcast and stuff – but I’m much better when I can collect my thoughts in writing. So I’ll be dommy via text, but I really struggle with it over the phone. I think also, I can’t read you as well that way.
SS: Yeah, we’ve done it over video once or twice, where I’ve been slapping myself on video for you, and I think that that solves the reading problem, because you’ve got more information.
KS: Right. And seeing that makes me feel dommier. So – this is kind of related – you’ve said to me that you enjoy being what you call a “phone-sex top,” i.e. doing most of the talking – which I find really… not confusing; I get it, ‘cause I know you, but it’s a little bit hard for me to wrap my head around, because it’s so different from what I get out of it and enjoy about it. But why is that what you like?
SS: I like the control that comes with that. It means that I can steer the scene and set up the action to flow in a way that will feel good for me, a progression that will feel good. I also like that it sort of feels like I’m playing an instrument, because I say things, I do things, and then I get these beautiful, short bursts back, of moans, or impact sounds, or whatever it is. And if I want more of that, ‘cause I want to be more turned on or if I want to touch myself faster or more intensely, I can amp up what I’m saying to get that response, and I like that feedback loop a lot.
KS: You’re really good at… I don’t wanna use the word “foreplay,” ‘cause we don’t like that word. But phone-sex foreplay… It’s very rarely like, “Oh, we’re gonna have phone sex now!” We just don’t really do that, and in-person sex is kind of like that too. For me, at least, it’s been relatively uncommon to just be like, “Let’s have sex now!” Usually it’s like, there’s some kind of escalating action. How do you start a phone-sex scene from just a regular conversation?
SS: Oh man. See, I don’t know that I feel like I’m really good at this. I think this is one of the things that I could still be better at. The most important thing, when considering this, is context. Making sure that the person you’re talking to is in the right physical space that they can have phone sex with you, the right frame of mind, they’re not super stressed or not interested, and you can figure that out more easily the better you know the person.
KS: Read the room. Yeah.
SS: Read the room. Exactly. But once you’ve got the right context, then it’s a very very similar skillset to flirting with somebody and initiating sex in person. You don’t jump straight into things; you talk about what you would do with the person if you were with them. Things that you miss about them, if you’ve had sex with them in person or been with them in person, like the way their skin feels, or talk about kissing… Ask them what they’re – I mean, it’s a cliché, but it’s a cliché for a reason – ask them what they’re wearing, because that also gives you information you can use later, when you’re asking them to take their clothes off, or telling them what clothes you would take off of them, depending on your dynamic. What are some other favorites? If, in your conversation, catching up on your days and stuff, the other person brings up a sexy scenario or something… Like, a thing that we often do is sort of go from “Well, what if we did this sometime?” to “Why don’t we just do that now? Would you be into that? What about right now?”
KS: That’s an improv trick. My coach used to always say, never be like, “I’m gonna do this thing in the future.” Start doing it, immediately, ‘cause that’s more exciting.
SS: Exactly. It’s very flirty to take something from the hypothetical into “Well, let’s just try it. What’s the worst that could happen?” So that’s a fun one.
KS: Tell me about your voice.
SS: [dommy voice] Mmm, what do you wanna know about it, cute stuff?
KS: What did you just call me?! You’ve never called me that in your life!
SS: [laughing] That’s a new one.
KS: Are you conscious of cultivating a voice for phone sex?
SS: Yes. I think we all have to do this in a lot of different contexts. People have different voices when they talk to their partner versus talking to a customer service agent, in person versus on the phone… We all modulate our voices based on context, and I definitely – because I like having phone sex a lot – have some vocal tricks for phone sex. [deeper, slower voice] And also, because I’m into hypnosis, and using hypnosis in kink contexts, there’s a lot of overlap… in developing a hypnotic voice and patter… that can be applied.
KS: [blushing and giggling] Oh god. Um. I’m journalist-ing very poorly.
SS: I wonder why! So, deeper, slower, these are some things that usually people tend to go for in phone-sex voice development. But the other extreme can totally work, too; it just depends on your role. Like, what are you trying to portray in the scene, in the dynamic, whatever?
KS: Yeah, it’s hilarious to me to hear how your voice changes when you’re playing a character. Like, clearly, you’re a theatre kid.
SS: Tell me more about that.
KS: Well, it’s just, I think a lot of people trying to do a teacher or a doctor thing would do a sexy teacher, a sexy doctor, but you kinda keep it real. Mostly. For a while.
SS: Right. The stuff they’re saying is sexy, but –
KS: Is it, though?!
SS: Sometimes. The situation is sexy. The vocal intonations don’t necessarily have to be overtly read as sexy, because the situation you’re setting up is sexy.
KS: Right. There are so many conversational branches I wanna follow from that. I wanna ask you about word choice and then also about theatre stuff. Which one first?
SS: Let’s take the first one first.
KS: Okay. We both are writers and cognizant of things like adjective choices. Is that important?
SS: Yes. It’s very important that the formality and word length and word choice match the energy that you want the other person to know that you’re feeling. So if you’re really really turned on and about to come, you’re probably gonna wanna use different words and different urgency in those words than if you’re just starting out a scene. And you want the other person to feel your arousal, desire for them, energy towards them in fucking them – you want them to feel that building through the course of the scene. So you want to ideally start out with less urgent-sounding words. Like, if you’re talking about kissing them and undressing them, that can be a little flowerier than when you’re trying to make them come.
KS: Okay, so I’m curious about… when the person gets close to coming, you encounter an issue which also comes up in dirty talk IRL, which is, some people (like me) have some kind of particular phrases or images that are really good at that moment. Do you worry about seeming repetitive? I don’t, ‘cause I’m, like, coming from the phrases, so I’m good. But is that something you worry about?
SS: Yes. Yes, that is something I worry about. This is a theatre thing, so, this isn’t maybe your theatre question, but this is a theatre answer. When you’re in a play, or a musical – anything with written dialogue – you have to say the same words every night, in the same order, and the trick of it is making it seem like you’re not saying the same words again in the same order. Like you’re coining the things that needed to be coined as new ideas. And even if I’m saying a lot of the same words to make you come every time, I want them to feel new in my body and in the way I’m portraying them, so it’s not just like I’m saying them because I’ve memorized a script or because I know that they work. I wanna say them because that’s what I want to say at that moment. Like I desperately want to say that because I want you to hear it.
KS: [giggles] You’re so hot. I can’t. I can’t.
SS: Why is that hot?
KS: ‘Cause you’re so thoughtful and articulate about this.
SS: I don’t feel that way.
KS: You are.
SS: Okay.
KS: Okay. Tell me how else a theatre background helps you with phone sex.
SS: A lot of the phone sex that we’ve had, and that I’ve had in general, incorporates some element of roleplay. Even if you’re having incredibly vanilla phone sex, a lot of the time you’re roleplaying that you’re together in person. You’re not talking about how you’re having phone sex the whole time. So you’re imagining a scenario that is not a true scenario, and then acting as though it is true. Imagining together in a shared space. So it’s incredibly relevant to have done a lot of that with other people and to have practiced it, because when you start doing theatre and you start learning how to act, it feels incredibly unnatural for most people. It feels fake, it feels like you are pretending, and like, “Why would anyone care?” and “This is really silly; why would anyone do this?” and if you’re not used to having phone sex, that’s probably how it will feel also. But if you push through that… If you can do it, I really recommend closing your eyes, because if you can close your eyes and let go of the fact that you’re talking into a piece of aluminum and glass and you’re not actually fucking anybody in person, you can get your brain to a place where it feels believable, or you can suspend your disbelief of it. And then you can start acting and saying and doing stuff that will make you and your partner feel really, really good, and that’s the fun part.
KS: Yeah, and I also think a lot about improv, and the connection there, like “yes, and”-ing. But also there’s the idea in improv, implicitly, that you don’t make fun of other people’s ideas. You support them and you expand upon them. And I think, like you said, when you’re acting or you’re roleplaying, everybody kind of sounds like an idiot, in a certain light, but there’s this necessary unspoken contract that you’re not gonna make fun of someone, ‘cause that’s not in the spirit of what you’re trying to build.
SS: Right. And if we all sound like an idiot in the same way, in the same universe, for long enough, then it stops sounding ridiculous and starts feeling like a new reality that we’re participating in.
KS: Yes, exactly.
SS: Also, there is the idea of acting as reacting. Acting is reacting. I think probably you would have more to say about that here, but it’s that even if you’re not topping or saying a lot of the action of the scene, you can’t check out, because if you check out, then you’re not having phone sex anymore. Your reactions and the timing of them are crucially important to maintaining the reality.
KS: Yeah. I think about this a lot when people make jokes about how, like, bottoms and submissives aren’t really doing very much, because being engaged and present and reacting to things is actually a lot, and can be really difficult.
SS: Yeah. It can. And I think it’s really tempting to treat phone sex like other types of conversations that we have with our partners, where maybe our attention is a little bit split. Like, maybe the Twitter timeline is up in the background, or we’re watching emails come in. And that is when phone sex goes off the rails in a really bad way, because the person that is having sex with you, from their perspective, they are having sex with you, and if you have just checked out and you’re in some totally other place, it feels really violating, almost. I know that sounds like a strong way to put it, but attention is so, so important.
KS: Yeah. It’s exactly like if you were fucking someone and you opened your eyes and you looked down and they were on their phone.
SS: Yeah, exactly.
KS: ‘Cause you’re doing a vulnerable thing and the person is ignoring it.
SS: Right.
KS: Does phone sex feel like real sex to you? However you want to define that?
SS: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. We had a conversation about this pretty early in our relationship, I think, where we talked about “What is sex?” and one of the differences between our answers was that I view phone sex as sex, and it’s totally real to me. It doesn’t feel like masturbation, even though that’s the technical physical thing that is happening. It feels totally like a form of partnered sex, just like fingering is a form of a partnered sex or blowjobs are a form of partnered sex. It’s just using your voice and ears as the sexual organs, and I guess the brain, more than the other stuff.
KS: Yeah, I remember that, ‘cause I remember saying that I didn’t view it as sex, and wouldn’t put it on my spreadsheet, but I think that that’s partly because the spreadsheet is for gathering information about physical things that I might refer to.
SS: Right. Also, it’d be a lot of work.
KS: Right, exactly. I could, and I used to note every single orgasm, but like… I grew tired of it. But yeah, I’ve come around on phone sex. I don’t know, I think it’s kind of an in-between space. But like, psychologically, certainly, it feels the same.
SS: That’s the most interesting part of sex to me, so yeah, it’s probably a values/priorities thing.
To be continued on Wednesday, when you’ll get to read about how we incorporate sadomasochism and trigger words into our phone sex!