Interviews

Intimate Intercourse: #DaddyDomLyfe (Part 1)

Kate Sloan

Hello! Intimate Intercourse is a series where I interview my boyfriend/Sir/daddy, who goes by Super Sleepy Dude, about various topics related to sex and kink. Previously we’ve talked about phone sex; this time we’re discussing Daddy Dom/little girl kink! I’ve split this interview up into 3 parts, which will go up over the course of this week. This first part is about how my darlin’ discovered DD/lg and his daddy identity, and how we feel about me calling him that. We hope you enjoy it! Content note for this post: Daddy dom/little girl roleplay (of course), hypnosis, adult baby/diaper-lover roleplay.

Kate Sloan: Daaaaddyyyy.

Super Sleepy: Yes, babygirl?

KS: We’re gonna talk about DD/lg!

SS: DD/lg. Life is good.

KS: Are you excited?

SS: I’m ready.

KS: That’s not what I asked!

SS: I am excited!

KS: Okay. When did you first hear about DD/lg as a concept, and how did you feel about it?

SS: I think I first heard about it on Tumblr, probably through my exploration of the hypnosis community there. I started following a lot of hypnokink blogs and some of those ended up having various intersections with other kinks, DD/lg being one of them. I felt, not squicked out by it, really, but like, “Oh, that’s not really for me. I’ll just skip over that.” I didn’t quite understand the distinction between DD/lg and like, adult baby/diaper stuff. What is the acronym for that?

KS: AB/DL.

SS: AB/DL, yeah. I think at some point, after realizing that I didn’t know that, I looked up the difference and I started to understand it better.

KS: How are people combining DD/lg with hypnosis? ‘Cause I know how we do that, but I didn’t know it was, like, a thing in the fandom.

SS: Yeah, definitely a thing! The things that I’ve seen are mostly related to putting people more into “little space” with hypnosis. So, if somebody doesn’t go into little space as naturally or as quickly as you do, for instance…

KS: [laughing]

SS: …you can trance them and make them littler, or get them to the degree of littleness that you want, with trance as a tool to do that. And you can do that on a scale of literalness, where if you want to be more literal about it, you can affect their vocabulary and the way they talk and the way they act and the way they move, and if you want it to be less literal, you can affect fewer of those factors.

KS: Daddy Dom/literal girl.

SS: [laughing] Mhm!

KS: Okay, so, when we first first started dating, you told me that you didn’t think you were “a daddy, per se.”

SS: Yeah, I did say that.

KS: Yeah. What did you mean by that?

SS: I think that in my time looking at this stuff and reading about it, I had a very archetypal image of what a daddy is – maybe informed by leather daddies, maybe informed by images I’d seen on Tumblr, or both. But I didn’t feel like this significantly older caretaker, because we’re, you know, not that far apart in age, and I viewed that as a really important component of that kink.

KS: Right. What changed, that made you say “Try it” one time when I said that I wanted to call you that?

SS: I don’t think that anything changed, really. I think I’m just open to being wrong about stuff, especially stuff that I might like, because I’ve liked a lot of things that I wasn’t sure I would like before I tried them. So, to me, it was like, I don’t feel like I’m a daddy, but maybe it’ll feel really good, or maybe it won’t, and it’ll be fine, because I didn’t feel like you would be upset or not want to continue trying other stuff if it didn’t feel good. I wasn’t that scared about that.

KS: Yeah. How did it feel when I first called you that?

SS: I’d want to go back to what I said, ‘cause now I’m gonna view it through the lens that it definitely felt amazing, ‘cause it feels really really good now. But if I think back, I remember, early on, there was some stuff about ownership, and it was tied up in that. When you started calling me “daddy,” it was rare, and it was special, and it felt like I had this important place in your life even though we didn’t know each other that well and we were just starting to date. I was quickly very into that feeling.

KS: [giggling] No chill at all.

SS: Yeah.

KS: And then you started to get more into it as we did it more. We kind of joke a lot about how you are clearly a daddy, and that there were all these signs, but you didn’t know. What are some things about yourself that you’ve realized are “daddy qualities” that you didn’t notice before?

SS: Oh god, so many things. So, you’ve pointed out that on our first date, I wanted to order for you, and I wanted to share food with you, and I wanted to solve your problems, in that you wanted to make out with me and needed a place to do that, and I wanted to take care of you and handle that. And I sort of showed up in kind of businessy attire and shiny shoes, and all of that surface-level stuff, for sure, is very “daddy.” Like, I’m into fancy watches and suits and the stuff you see in black-and-white photos on Tumblr or whatever. But on a deeper level, I really really have always deeply wanted to take care of my partners. Regardless of the kink dynamics at play, I just want to take care of the people that I’m close to – friends and partners – and I want to take care of them in a way that is deeply aware of what they need, and focused on what will make them feel safe and comfortable. I didn’t really realize that not everybody felt that to the same degree that I do, but looking around, the more I think about this identity and this kink, I don’t think I realized how maybe rare that feeling is. Like, I want to provide for and take care of the person that I’m with – and on a different level, be egalitarian and equal, but in some way, kind of protect them.

KS: Interesting. You texted me a while ago, a picture of the two times that you wrote on my arm, and you were like, “This was when I was coming into my daddy-dom identity and this was when I was feeling more confident about it.”

SS: Yeah.

KS: What happened to get you to that point? Or how does that feel different?

SS: The thing that I got a lot more comfortable with is the word. You’ve written a lot about the word, and about getting comfortable with calling partners that yourself. It’s a very weighty word. It has a lot of cultural significance and psychological significance to hear someone call you “daddy” when you’re not a literal father, or even if you were, in a different context. So when we first started dating, you would call me “Sir” most of the time, and then occasionally you would call me “daddy,” and it would be sort of extra-intense and special. And then over a period of a few months, I started feeling more connected to that word than any other word. I felt more like that was my role, rather than just being your dominant or your Sir or your boyfriend. All those things are still true, but being your daddy felt so real and undeniably true, I guess. And so, when you talk about the arm photos, it’s like… The first time, I definitely felt like your daddy, but I wasn’t gonna write it on you, because that would be like making it too real, and I was still a little bit afraid of the word. And then later, that’s just the first thing I went to, because you are my little girl and I’m your daddy.

KS: [giggling] Yeah.

SS: Yeah.

KS: Aww, cute.

SS: How do you feel about it?

KS: I think that often, when we first started dating, when I would call you that, it would be in moments of extreme arousal or feeling very subspacey and very vulnerable and very dependent on you, and it would come out almost involuntarily at that point. I think that the longer we’ve dated, the easier and quicker it’s been for me to get into subspace and little space when we’re together, or when we’re talking, and so it comes more naturally. But also I think that when I first started calling you that, I was really nervous all the time that you didn’t really like it, and that you were just kind of humoring me and letting me call you that ‘cause you knew that I liked it, and so I didn’t do it very much.

SS: Yeah. I never really felt that way. I never felt like I was “letting” you do it, except for the first time, when I wasn’t sure, and then after that, I never felt that way.

KS: Yeah. I’ve had a couple of past partners who I felt like they were doing that, and I can’t really confirm that that was for sure what was going on, but I got that sense from them. There was one point several months ago when I expressed that to you, that I was nervous that you weren’t into it, and you were like, “We can explore it as deeply as you want, and you can feel it as much as you want, and you can call me it as much as you want,” and that made me feel a lot better about it.

SS: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

KS: And then I felt even better about it when you told me you felt more like my daddy than my Sir, because then I felt like I could call you that all the time.

SS: You can! I love it.

KS: But does it lose its intensity when I call you that all the time?

SS: No. No, it doesn’t. It doesn’t. I still remember very vividly the first time you said “I love you, daddy” to me. I’m pretty sure I cried. I still feel that same deep pull of really strong emotion every time you say those words to me, because it’s so much responsibility and trust and care – to not just be telling somebody that you love them but also to be telling them you love them in that way, in that dependent, small, “I trust you with everything because it’s your job to take care of me” way, you know? Yeah. That never loses its potency or immediacy or intensity to me.

To be continued on Wednesday, when we’ll discuss protocol, lifestyle domming, negotiating DD/lg exclusivity in polyamory, and kinky headspaces!

Intimate Intercourse: Phone Sex (Part 3)

Kate Sloan

Hello again! This is Intimate Intercourse, a series where I interview my boyfriend/Sir/Daddy, Super Sleepy Dude, about topics relating to sex and kink. This is the final part of a 3-part interview about phone sex; you can read part 1 here and part 2 here. In this last instalment, we talk about aftercare, debriefing, and embarrassing mouth malfunctions.

Kate Sloan: Tell me about phone-sex aftercare.

Super Sleepy: Yeah. This is not something that I had really done before having phone sex with you, as a practice. A lot of the phone sex I had before dating you was very vanilla phone sex, and I still think it’s important for that, but I think when you have kink plus distance plus less information, it’s really really important. We learned that pretty quickly, because we had kinky phone sex and then not enough aftercare and it didn’t feel good for you. It didn’t really feel good for me, either. It feels good in the moment and then there’s this weird disconnect afterwards. So, what have we evolved to, in terms of phone-sex aftercare? It’s pretty similar to in-person aftercare for us. Like, you know, after a little bit of breathing and clean-up and stuff, we’re very cuddly; we try to make sure that you have snacks available, water, stuff like that… What else do we do?

KS: Sometimes we talk about what we liked. But mostly we do that the next day.

SS: Right. It’s easier for you to talk about what you liked the next day, so that’s what we’ve come to with that. But even if we’re not talking about the specifics of what we liked right after the scene, we are very complimentary of one another, generally. I talk about what a good girl you were and how well you took it for me, and you talk often about what you felt, what your orgasm felt like, stuff like that. That’s a nice come-down. And then we just try to make sure that there’s enough time. Often we’re having phone sex late at night, and that means planning ahead a little bit and not starting the scene 30 minutes before we both need to be asleep for work the next day, because then you’re not building in enough time for aftercare, or you’re going to be too tired to do the aftercare properly. So have phone sex earlier, kids! That’s what I’m saying.

KS: [laughing] Time management is one of your core competencies.

SS: Time management. That’s right.

KS: Okay, one more thing – about the next-day debriefs. I feel like they’re an extension of aftercare, and also we learn from them. What are your thoughts on debriefs?

SS: I agree; they’re really, really important to me. We have phone sex a lot – I don’t know if this has been posted on the internet anywhere, if anyone knows that, but – we don’t always do it. We don’t have an 100% debrief rate. I think in the cases where we skip it or are too busy to do it or whatever, it’s usually when we’ve done a phone-sex scene that is pretty similar to a lot of other phone-sex scenes that we’ve done, so there’s not a lot new to talk about. But whenever we do anything intense, risky, new, a new roleplay scenario, more literal ageplay stuff, anything edgy for either of us, we make sure to do the debriefs, and they are emotionally really comforting and satisfying and I’m usually really proud of myself for making you feel really good, but they’re also a learning opportunity – because if we did a whole scene and I said something as a professor and you really really liked it, where can I reuse that in other contexts? Like you said earlier in the interview, maybe that context is in person. Maybe it’s in a totally different roleplay scenario, or maybe or it’s in a phone-sex scene where we’re not really doing much roleplay at all. All of that is interesting, and I especially like talking about the words that made us come. Like, what was the phrase or series of things that really pushed you over the edge? That’s a favorite phone-sex follow-up question that you should ask.

KS: Yep, that’s a good one.

SS: It’s often hard for one or both of us to remember them, but usually one of us can pull it out. There’s a lot going on at that point.

KS: Yeah, your mind goes blank.

SS: Uh-huh.

KS: Okay. I’m done. Is there anything I missed that you wanted to talk about? Or final parting words of advice?

SS: Well, yeah. I wanna ask you this: when we started dating, you said you weren’t into phone sex, right? What has been different about the phone sex that we’ve had, or what has changed in you, that you’re now more into it and having a lot of it?

KS: I think necessity was the first foot in the door of why I was willing to give it another shot, because what else would we do? Sexting is fine, but I don’t usually get off that way, and I’m usually running around, going about my day, instead of having a dedicated sexting sesh. But also, I think, my past experiences with phone sex were like, I was being expected to say more shit, and – I don’t know if it’s because I am not practiced at that skill, or just because I go nonverbal when I’m subby, so that’s really hard for me, and if I force myself to not go nonverbal, then it pulls me out of the scene. It’s just really hard for me to be both of those things at the same time. And so there was the pressure to say things – which also turns into anxiety about “Am I saying the right things?” – and also always a lot of anxiety about “taking too long to come.” I don’t really worry about that with you anymore, but I used to worry about, like, “Is he mad that he’s just been saying shit for half an hour?”

SS: Right. Definitely not. That does trigger a thing that I want to say, if you’re done. If you had another thing you wanted to say, that’s cool too.

KS: No, I think that’s the main thing. I think I just needed to find someone whose style and approach to it was compatible with me.

SS: A good match. Yeah. What I wanted to say, and I guess this is as good a parting word as any, is: if you’re talking a lot in phone sex – if you’re talking for an hour straight, or even if it is more balanced and 50-50 – you are gonna say stuff that makes no sense.

KS: [laughing]

SS: It’s a hazard of the situation. And unlike in dirty talk in physical sex, where you have something to fall back on – like maybe you’re doing a good thing with your hands, or your dick, or whatever – you don’t have that, so it can be a little bit awkward when you say the wrong thing. My advice, when that happens, is to laugh about it – it’s totally fine to giggle about it for a second – and just like, say a better thing. Just keep moving forward. Don’t be like “Oh god, no, I can’t do it!” It’s fine. You’re talking a lot. Weird syllables are gonna come out of your mouth. It’s normal.

KS: I can’t even… The only one I can think of is when you told me I was “too good for my own good.”

SS: I said that. I’ve called my cock “little” at least twice, because I was trying to call you “little” but I got my wires crossed.

KS: You use that adjective…

SS: So much.

KS: …like seasoning, so it comes up.

SS: Yeah. There’s been a bunch. There’ve been words that were not words at all, they’re just, like, garbled syllables. I hear all of them. I’m somewhat of a perfectionist about this, so I hear every mistake.

KS: I really had trouble thinking of anything, so don’t worry about it so much.

SS: In every time, there’s at least one, and eventually I’ll get them to zero. No. It’s impossible. It’s totally fine and normal.

KS: Yeah, it’s fine. Okay. Thank you, love.

SS: Thank you, little one.

Hope you enjoyed this interview! I’m hoping to do more of these in the future; we have a lot to talk about. Feel free to comment with suggestions for what you’d like to see us discuss – or your own favorite tips for phone sex!

Intimate Intercourse: Phone Sex (Part 2)

Kate Sloan

Welcome back to Intimate Intercourse, a series where I interview my boyfriend/Sir/Daddy, Super Sleepy Dude, about topics relating to sex and kink. This is part 2 of a 3-part interview about phone sex; you can read part 1 here. In this instalment, we’re talking about how we handle impact play during phone sex, logistically and emotionally. Enjoy! (Content note: we touch on self-harm in this interview, so if that’s triggering for you, definitely feel free to skip this post.)

Kate Sloan: Okay, I wanna talk about sadomasochistic things. Is that as gratifying for you over the phone as doing in-person sadistic things?

Super Sleepy: No, but only shades less. It’s better when it’s on video, in that case, I think, because a lot of the feedback of hitting someone is visual feedback, so seeing skin getting redder, seeing the actual thud or slap or whatever, is more satisfying than just hearing it. But, in the context of a full phone-sex scene, switching between audio and video is kind of distracting, and the audio is disinhibiting because you don’t have to look at video of yourself. Looking at video of yourself is inhibiting on both sides, I think. It’s like you’re forced to have sex in front of a mirror. So I tend to usually just go with the audio, because there’s less of the technical switching and there’s less of that inhibition.

KS: Yeah. I kinda would like to develop that skill of getting over that inhibition, so that’s something to think about. ‘Cause I agree that it totally makes sense, the visual feedback thing.

SS: What about for you, receiving impact via verbal commands over the phone? How does it compare?

KS: It’s very close. I think that the main difference is, there is some element of, like, I’m just not gonna hit myself as hard as a person would who can’t feel what I’m feeling, even if I’m trying really hard…

SS: Right. Because your body just won’t let you do that.

KS: Yeah. I do think that’s gotten better with practice, but yeah, it definitely was interesting to see how my body would start to respond without me even consciously being like, “Okay, time to hit myself.” It just became very ingrained.

SS: Yeah, the first few times that was happening were some highlights of our early phone-sex experiences together, when you were slapping yourself faster than you realized you could. I think, if you have somebody that you want to do sadomasochistic stuff on the phone with, and you’re topping them, one way to get them more comfortable hitting themselves harder than they think they might be able to initially is to do the same thing you would do in person, which is to walk them up an incline of that. Because if you just tell someone to hit themselves as hard as they can, how are they gonna process that? How are they gonna do that safely?

KS: Very few people like that, anyway.

SS: Right. So if you use the 1-to-10 scale, which you’ve written about a lot, and if you use dominance as part of it, if that’s part of your dynamic, to push past where it sounds like they’re really starting to feel pain, and… I ask a lot about, like, “Does that hurt, little one?” or what the pain feels like, then you can push a little bit past that, and that’s where it’s gonna start to feel, for them, I think, like they’re hitting themselves harder than they thought they could – which can be hot.

KS: Yeah. I get very nonverbal at that point, which I would imagine is hard to navigate in a phone setting.

SS: It is, yeah.

KS: How do you deal with that?

SS: In our case, the way I deal with that is gonna sound kind of silly, maybe, but a lot it is knowing what your sounds mean. It’s having hit you and fucked you and known you long enough to be able to interpret the nonverbal signals that I can still hear. I can hear the impact, I can hear the sounds that you’re making, and the other signal you can pay attention to is, how long does it take for the person to respond to the command? If they’re starting to get reluctant, that time will creep up, usually, at least in your case. And the other one is, you will start whining more when you are getting to the point of reluctance.

KS: What do you mean?! I always follow orders!

SS: Sure you do, little one. You’re very good.

KS: We had to kind of develop the system that we use for sadomasochistic stuff over the phone. Do you want to describe what we do?

SS: Sure, okay. So, when we start doing impact play over the phone, what that usually looks like is, we pick an implement – could be a hand, could be a paddle, could be a truncheon, whatever – and then we pick and agree on a spot on your body that you’re gonna hit yourself. Sometimes it’s your thighs – usually it’s your thighs – sometimes it’s your face, if it’s face-slapping… and then we pick an intensity. We used to always start at 1 out of 10 as the intensity; more recently, we’ve started at different spots, depending on the action before that in the scene, and stuff. And then we also developed a consistent word that we use to mean “you’re gonna hit yourself right now,” and that word is just “now,” because it is short, and it cuts through a lot of other sounds. It’s single-syllable and it tends to work well and it can be repeated quickly without getting kind of crunched together. Gotta hit the “N” pretty hard, but it’s doable.

KS: [giggling]

SS: It’s gonna sound like, “Alright, little one. Are you ready to hit yourself for me?” You’ll say, “Yes, Sir,” and then I’ll say, “Okay, you’re gonna start at a 1 for me, right?” and you’ll say, “Yes, Sir,” and then I’ll say, “Okay. Now.” And then there’ll probably be a bunch of “Nows” while I kind of calibrate what the implement is sounding like on that part of your body, because the distance of the microphone from that spot on your body changes, whether you’re using headphones or not changes, so I need to get a sense for what that “1” sounds like before I feel comfortable hitting you harder than that.

KS: Yeah.

SS: Then we’ve also developed a way to do more than one hit at once, so that I don’t have to say “Now” 15 times in a row if I want to hit you 15 times in a row. So I would just say, “Alright, I want you to hit yourself 15 times, at that intensity. Can you do that for me, little one?” You’d say, “Yes, Sir,” and then I would say “Now,” and you know that that means hit yourself that number of times. And then we use “Again” to do repeated commands. So there’s a whole kind of language or vocabulary that we’ve built together to simplify doing these scenes, so I don’t have to explain exactly what I want because we’ve done it a bunch.

KS: Yeah, I really like it. It feels very connective.

SS: Right. And then if you wanna go up in intensity, you can just say, “Alright, you’re gonna hit yourself at a 3 for me,” and then we’ve jumped up to a 3 and we can kind of keep going at that level with a bunch more “Nows.”

KS: You always wait for the “Yes, Sir.” Why’s that?

SS: Um, that’s consent. See everything ever written about it.

KS: [giggling] Yeah. True. We have another thing like that, though, which is “squeeze.”

SS: Uh-huh.

KS: I don’t even remember how that started, originally.

SS: How it started? I don’t know if I have the origin story of “squeeze” either. [both giggling a lot] I will say, it’s an incredibly useful thing to have. Not as useful as you, little one. It’s just up there. It’s in my toolbox. “Squeeze” is another agreed-upon trigger word that we use when I want you to squeeze your PC muscles. Right?

KS: [audibly blushing] Uh-huh.

SS: Uh-huh.

KS: I’m fine. I’m fine. I’m just giggling a lot. It’s fine.

SS: So, if you’re having phone sex with somebody, really regardless of parts, I think this would be useful. Just being able to tell them to tense up those muscles is really useful when you have something inside of them and you want them to squeeze around it, or you want to hear the sound that they would make if you were inside them and they were squeezing on you. And just like I repeat the “Now” trigger in impact-play scenarios, you can speed up those squeezes. If somebody’s getting close to coming, you can make them squeeze faster, and kind of tip them over that edge.

KS: [giggling] It’s very good. It’s very good for D/s things.

SS: Tell me more about that.

KS: Because it’s like, involuntary at this point.

SS: So what happens if I say it right now? Like this: Squeeze.

KS: [giggling a lot] Yeah. I mean, it works.

SS: Uh-huh.

KS: It’s like a hypnotic trigger, but I don’t think you actually set it up that way.

SS: No. I think it’s more just conditioning at this point.

KS: Yeah. ‘Cause usually there’s some kind of reward for that, even if it’s just the sensation of it.

SS: Yeah, there’s often a verbal reward, though, too.

KS: Yeah.

SS: Squeeze.

KS: Hey!

SS: Good girl. Like that! I’m just demoing.

KS: Okay… Okay, back to the hitting.

SS: Back to the hitting.

KS: Some people would say that it’s essentially self-harm, because I’m hitting myself. What do you think about that?

SS: I am not an expert on the topic, at all. I know that we’ve talked about that and both of us don’t consider it self-harm, because it’s collaborative, and we have safety measures in place, and it’s two consenting adults. I don’t think we’ve run into a scenario where there’s any lasting harm that’s been done by doing impact play over the phone. Correct me if I’m wrong.

KS: No, I don’t think so.

SS: Yeah. But there are risks. The things that make me nervous about stuff on the phone – hypnosis stuff, impact play stuff – are like, I can’t be there if something goes wrong. I think about that a lot. Some things that I’ve done to make myself feel better and you safer, hopefully, are having the closest hospital to your apartment in my phone…

KS: Aww, I didn’t know that!

SS: Right, I forgot to tell you that. Like, knowing your roommate’s phone number incase there was an emergency and you passed out or hit yourself too hard or something like that. Just something that I can do in the case where something goes wrong, because if I was just hung up on, after I told you to hit yourself at an 8 or a 9, I would be panicking. If I couldn’t immediately reach you again, I would want to escalate that, because that could be a safety issue.

KS: Right. Yeah. I also think there have been times when we have done it as a way of avoiding me self-harming. Which is kind of whack, because I’m essentially doing the same thing I would be doing, but psychologically it feels very different to me.

SS: Yeah. How does it feel different psychologically?

KS: When I used to do self-impact for self-harm, it was like I was trying to escape my feelings by giving myself something else to focus on. But I feel like when I do pain stuff with you, it’s like I’m very deliberately choosing to focus on the pain, and also on the emotions that it brings up. I’m deliberately going into them instead of trying to avoid them. And also it’s directed by someone else, so I’m not gonna escalate too quickly or do more than I can handle.

SS: Yeah. I would add that if you’re doing impact play with somebody that does use that for self-harm, and you feel like they’re in a place where they might want the pain for those types of reasons, definitely have these types of conversations – because if they’re asking you for more, you want to know what that “more” means, and that it’s not destructive.

The 3rd and final part of this interview will go up on Friday. In it, we discuss aftercare, debriefs, and the inherent silliness of phone sex. Thanks for reading!

Intimate Intercourse: Phone Sex (Part 1)

Kate Sloan

Hello! Intimate Intercourse is a new series where I interview my boyfriend/Sir/daddy, who goes by Super Sleepy Dude, about various topics related to sex and kink. The first topic we tackled is phone sex, and it turns out we had a lot to say about it – who would’ve thought?! – so I’ve split this interview up into 3 parts, which will go up over the course of this week. In this first part, we discuss the overall joys of phone sex and some of the skills involved in it. Enjoy!

Kate Sloan: What skills do you think someone needs to develop to be good at phone sex?

Super Sleepy: I think there a few key skills you need to be good at phone sex. One of them is knowing what to say, and when to say it. That comes from a lot of practice and a lot of, actually, the second skill that I think is important, which is like, really closely monitoring the person – or people, I guess; I’ve never had phone sex with multiple people at the same time, but…

KS: It’s possible!

SS: It’s possible, I guess! Party line! Um, monitoring the person’s reactions and then, like, over time, if you’re having phone sex with this person multiple times, remembering what they responded to, and what ordering of sounds and words and ideas work for them. It’s similar to how, if you’re having sex with somebody in person, you get to know their body and their responses better over time. And you can do the same thing if you listen really closely.

And then the third one is kind of the creativity one. It’s coming up with new stuff, so that you’re not just constantly saying the same few things over and over again. New scenarios, new things to roleplay, settings, toys can be helpful… The mixing-it-up part.

KS: You’ve said to me before that you think you have a phone-sex kink. What does that mean to you? How does that manifest for you?

SS: I think, like a lot of my kinks, this is something that goes back pretty early in my sexuality. Like, when I was a teenager and I caught glimpses of TV ads for phone sex lines, I was always really interested in what would happen if I called them. And when I first started dating, a lot of the early flirtation and first times that sex came up with people I was flirting with or dating was over the phone, because we didn’t have cars, didn’t have an easy way to see each other right away, so I got really into flirting and also turning on the person that I was with, with my voice, over the phone. And I think that those things together solidified into it being able to turn me on, on its own, as an idea.

KS: What do you get out of it that you don’t get out of in-person sex?

SS: I don’t know that that’s quite how I would put it. I don’t know that I get a thing out of it that I can’t get out of in-person sex. It’s like how a blindfold works, in that, if you take away a sense, the other senses can get stronger. Like, if I close my eyes and I’m lying by myself, touching myself, and hear the person that I’m really into on the other side of the phone, I only have so much information to go on – just the things I can hear, and the things I can feel in my body – and those things get more intense, because I’m not processing a bunch of visual information, or touch information from another person, or scent. I have to imagine all that stuff, and the stuff that I do have, I can pay so much more attention to it.

KS: Yeah, that makes sense. And then, do you – I mean, I know the answer to this is yes, but – do you use the information that you get from phone sex for IRL sex?

SS: Yes, but I think it’s important to be careful about that, because it’s a different situation. So you can’t carry over consent. If somebody consents to something in a phone-sex scenario, you can’t just do that with them in person, ‘cause that’s not how that works.

KS: Yeah.

SS: And also, desires are different. Like I know that in our phone sex, we’ve done stuff that you’ve said you might not be into in person. And that’s a really good thing to check in on, because when you’re by yourself, safely, in your room, and it’s just voice, and nothing can make you feel a physical sensation without you doing it, it’s much easier to try stuff out that you’re not sure about, because there’s less risk involved. Less physical risk, I mean. Maybe there’s the same amount of emotional risk.

KS: Yeah. Well, I don’t know, though. I think it’s different.

SS: It feels different, and it feels safer to try stuff out. More like a brainstorm.

KS: Yeah. The other side of that is like, I think I pretty much would never wanna be dommy during phone sex, because that’s just not really how my dominance manifests. It’s more about doing stuff than saying stuff, I think. So I feel safer being dommy in person, which I didn’t realize until…

SS: Right. We realized that by me wanting that from you and you not quite knowing why that felt wrong to you, but that seems like a perfect encapsulation of it. ‘Cause you get satisfaction from the feedback loop of actually doing the thing. What is it about doing versus saying that can flip that switch for you?

KS: It’s really hard to pinpoint. I think part of it is, there are physical activities that I can do that put me in a dominant headspace, like facesitting or face-slapping, and I’m finding that if I can’t do those, it’s very hard for me to force myself into that headspace. But also, I feel like I’m just not a verbally confident person in general – which sounds weird, ‘cause I have a podcast and stuff – but I’m much better when I can collect my thoughts in writing. So I’ll be dommy via text, but I really struggle with it over the phone. I think also, I can’t read you as well that way.

SS: Yeah, we’ve done it over video once or twice, where I’ve been slapping myself on video for you, and I think that that solves the reading problem, because you’ve got more information.

KS: Right. And seeing that makes me feel dommier. So – this is kind of related – you’ve said to me that you enjoy being what you call a “phone-sex top,” i.e. doing most of the talking – which I find really… not confusing; I get it, ‘cause I know you, but it’s a little bit hard for me to wrap my head around, because it’s so different from what I get out of it and enjoy about it. But why is that what you like?

SS: I like the control that comes with that. It means that I can steer the scene and set up the action to flow in a way that will feel good for me, a progression that will feel good. I also like that it sort of feels like I’m playing an instrument, because I say things, I do things, and then I get these beautiful, short bursts back, of moans, or impact sounds, or whatever it is. And if I want more of that, ‘cause I want to be more turned on or if I want to touch myself faster or more intensely, I can amp up what I’m saying to get that response, and I like that feedback loop a lot.

KS: You’re really good at… I don’t wanna use the word “foreplay,” ‘cause we don’t like that word. But phone-sex foreplay… It’s very rarely like, “Oh, we’re gonna have phone sex now!” We just don’t really do that, and in-person sex is kind of like that too. For me, at least, it’s been relatively uncommon to just be like, “Let’s have sex now!” Usually it’s like, there’s some kind of escalating action. How do you start a phone-sex scene from just a regular conversation?

SS: Oh man. See, I don’t know that I feel like I’m really good at this. I think this is one of the things that I could still be better at. The most important thing, when considering this, is context. Making sure that the person you’re talking to is in the right physical space that they can have phone sex with you, the right frame of mind, they’re not super stressed or not interested, and you can figure that out more easily the better you know the person.

KS: Read the room. Yeah.

SS: Read the room. Exactly. But once you’ve got the right context, then it’s a very very similar skillset to flirting with somebody and initiating sex in person. You don’t jump straight into things; you talk about what you would do with the person if you were with them. Things that you miss about them, if you’ve had sex with them in person or been with them in person, like the way their skin feels, or talk about kissing… Ask them what they’re – I mean, it’s a cliché, but it’s a cliché for a reason – ask them what they’re wearing, because that also gives you information you can use later, when you’re asking them to take their clothes off, or telling them what clothes you would take off of them, depending on your dynamic. What are some other favorites? If, in your conversation, catching up on your days and stuff, the other person brings up a sexy scenario or something… Like, a thing that we often do is sort of go from “Well, what if we did this sometime?” to “Why don’t we just do that now? Would you be into that? What about right now?”

KS: That’s an improv trick. My coach used to always say, never be like, “I’m gonna do this thing in the future.” Start doing it, immediately, ‘cause that’s more exciting.

SS: Exactly. It’s very flirty to take something from the hypothetical into “Well, let’s just try it. What’s the worst that could happen?” So that’s a fun one.

KS: Tell me about your voice.

SS: [dommy voice] Mmm, what do you wanna know about it, cute stuff?

KS: What did you just call me?! You’ve never called me that in your life!

SS: [laughing] That’s a new one.

KS: Are you conscious of cultivating a voice for phone sex?

SS: Yes. I think we all have to do this in a lot of different contexts. People have different voices when they talk to their partner versus talking to a customer service agent, in person versus on the phone… We all modulate our voices based on context, and I definitely – because I like having phone sex a lot – have some vocal tricks for phone sex. [deeper, slower voice] And also, because I’m into hypnosis, and using hypnosis in kink contexts, there’s a lot of overlap… in developing a hypnotic voice and patter… that can be applied.

KS: [blushing and giggling] Oh god. Um. I’m journalist-ing very poorly.

SS: I wonder why! So, deeper, slower, these are some things that usually people tend to go for in phone-sex voice development. But the other extreme can totally work, too; it just depends on your role. Like, what are you trying to portray in the scene, in the dynamic, whatever?

KS: Yeah, it’s hilarious to me to hear how your voice changes when you’re playing a character. Like, clearly, you’re a theatre kid.

SS: Tell me more about that.

KS: Well, it’s just, I think a lot of people trying to do a teacher or a doctor thing would do a sexy teacher, a sexy doctor, but you kinda keep it real. Mostly. For a while.

SS: Right. The stuff they’re saying is sexy, but –

KS: Is it, though?!

SS: Sometimes. The situation is sexy. The vocal intonations don’t necessarily have to be overtly read as sexy, because the situation you’re setting up is sexy.

KS: Right. There are so many conversational branches I wanna follow from that. I wanna ask you about word choice and then also about theatre stuff. Which one first?

SS: Let’s take the first one first.

KS: Okay. We both are writers and cognizant of things like adjective choices. Is that important?

SS: Yes. It’s very important that the formality and word length and word choice match the energy that you want the other person to know that you’re feeling. So if you’re really really turned on and about to come, you’re probably gonna wanna use different words and different urgency in those words than if you’re just starting out a scene. And you want the other person to feel your arousal, desire for them, energy towards them in fucking them – you want them to feel that building through the course of the scene. So you want to ideally start out with less urgent-sounding words. Like, if you’re talking about kissing them and undressing them, that can be a little flowerier than when you’re trying to make them come.

KS: Okay, so I’m curious about… when the person gets close to coming, you encounter an issue which also comes up in dirty talk IRL, which is, some people (like me) have some kind of particular phrases or images that are really good at that moment. Do you worry about seeming repetitive? I don’t, ‘cause I’m, like, coming from the phrases, so I’m good. But is that something you worry about?

SS: Yes. Yes, that is something I worry about. This is a theatre thing, so, this isn’t maybe your theatre question, but this is a theatre answer. When you’re in a play, or a musical – anything with written dialogue – you have to say the same words every night, in the same order, and the trick of it is making it seem like you’re not saying the same words again in the same order. Like you’re coining the things that needed to be coined as new ideas. And even if I’m saying a lot of the same words to make you come every time, I want them to feel new in my body and in the way I’m portraying them, so it’s not just like I’m saying them because I’ve memorized a script or because I know that they work. I wanna say them because that’s what I want to say at that moment. Like I desperately want to say that because I want you to hear it.

KS: [giggles] You’re so hot. I can’t. I can’t.

SS: Why is that hot?

KS: ‘Cause you’re so thoughtful and articulate about this.

SS: I don’t feel that way.

KS: You are.

SS: Okay.

KS: Okay. Tell me how else a theatre background helps you with phone sex.

SS: A lot of the phone sex that we’ve had, and that I’ve had in general, incorporates some element of roleplay. Even if you’re having incredibly vanilla phone sex, a lot of the time you’re roleplaying that you’re together in person. You’re not talking about how you’re having phone sex the whole time. So you’re imagining a scenario that is not a true scenario, and then acting as though it is true. Imagining together in a shared space. So it’s incredibly relevant to have done a lot of that with other people and to have practiced it, because when you start doing theatre and you start learning how to act, it feels incredibly unnatural for most people. It feels fake, it feels like you are pretending, and like, “Why would anyone care?” and “This is really silly; why would anyone do this?” and if you’re not used to having phone sex, that’s probably how it will feel also. But if you push through that… If you can do it, I really recommend closing your eyes, because if you can close your eyes and let go of the fact that you’re talking into a piece of aluminum and glass and you’re not actually fucking anybody in person, you can get your brain to a place where it feels believable, or you can suspend your disbelief of it. And then you can start acting and saying and doing stuff that will make you and your partner feel really, really good, and that’s the fun part.

KS: Yeah, and I also think a lot about improv, and the connection there, like “yes, and”-ing. But also there’s the idea in improv, implicitly, that you don’t make fun of other people’s ideas. You support them and you expand upon them. And I think, like you said, when you’re acting or you’re roleplaying, everybody kind of sounds like an idiot, in a certain light, but there’s this necessary unspoken contract that you’re not gonna make fun of someone, ‘cause that’s not in the spirit of what you’re trying to build.

SS: Right. And if we all sound like an idiot in the same way, in the same universe, for long enough, then it stops sounding ridiculous and starts feeling like a new reality that we’re participating in.

KS: Yes, exactly.

SS: Also, there is the idea of acting as reacting. Acting is reacting. I think probably you would have more to say about that here, but it’s that even if you’re not topping or saying a lot of the action of the scene, you can’t check out, because if you check out, then you’re not having phone sex anymore. Your reactions and the timing of them are crucially important to maintaining the reality.

KS: Yeah. I think about this a lot when people make jokes about how, like, bottoms and submissives aren’t really doing very much, because being engaged and present and reacting to things is actually a lot, and can be really difficult.

SS: Yeah. It can. And I think it’s really tempting to treat phone sex like other types of conversations that we have with our partners, where maybe our attention is a little bit split. Like, maybe the Twitter timeline is up in the background, or we’re watching emails come in. And that is when phone sex goes off the rails in a really bad way, because the person that is having sex with you, from their perspective, they are having sex with you, and if you have just checked out and you’re in some totally other place, it feels really violating, almost. I know that sounds like a strong way to put it, but attention is so, so important.

KS: Yeah. It’s exactly like if you were fucking someone and you opened your eyes and you looked down and they were on their phone.

SS: Yeah, exactly.

KS: ‘Cause you’re doing a vulnerable thing and the person is ignoring it.

SS: Right.

KS: Does phone sex feel like real sex to you? However you want to define that?

SS: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. We had a conversation about this pretty early in our relationship, I think, where we talked about “What is sex?” and one of the differences between our answers was that I view phone sex as sex, and it’s totally real to me. It doesn’t feel like masturbation, even though that’s the technical physical thing that is happening. It feels totally like a form of partnered sex, just like fingering is a form of a partnered sex or blowjobs are a form of partnered sex. It’s just using your voice and ears as the sexual organs, and I guess the brain, more than the other stuff.

KS: Yeah, I remember that, ‘cause I remember saying that I didn’t view it as sex, and wouldn’t put it on my spreadsheet, but I think that that’s partly because the spreadsheet is for gathering information about physical things that I might refer to.

SS: Right. Also, it’d be a lot of work.

KS: Right, exactly. I could, and I used to note every single orgasm, but like… I grew tired of it. But yeah, I’ve come around on phone sex. I don’t know, I think it’s kind of an in-between space. But like, psychologically, certainly, it feels the same.

SS: That’s the most interesting part of sex to me, so yeah, it’s probably a values/priorities thing.

To be continued on Wednesday, when you’ll get to read about how we incorporate sadomasochism and trigger words into our phone sex!

What Makes Bad Sex So Bad?

Kate Sloan

I’ve been a sex nerd for a long, long time, y’all. One of the ways this manifested early in my life was subscribing to the Bad_Sex community on LiveJournal.

At the time, I didn’t give much critical thought to why these stories fascinated me so much. But in retrospect, I think they gave me a sense of perspective about sex that I was missing at that time, as a naive virgin whose main understanding of sex came from flowery erotica stories and slick MMORPG cybersex. When the sex media you consume is all smooth ‘n’ hot, it’s easy to overlook how often real-life sex is boring, confusing, unsatisfying, or straight-up bad.

Let me be clear here: I am not talking about sex that’s bad from a consent perspective, i.e. rape, coerced sex, and so on. That is a whole other kettle of fish, obviously hugely problematic in different ways and for different reasons. I am talking about sex where consent is freely and mutually given, that turns out to be bad due to other factors. It happens, and I think we don’t talk about it enough, leaving the young or inexperienced among us with unrealistic expectations of sex as effortlessly perfect and magical.

So I was excited when Lily Wilson reached out to me to tell me about her new book, In the Glow of the Lavalamp: Stories of Bad Sex and Other Misfortunes. It’s a series of short, funny bad-sex tales. Flipping through Lily’s book inspired me to reflect on some of my own memories of bad sex…

The first time I ever had penetrative sex was a mess. Me and a cute lesbian FWB decided our foreplay should be scissoring, since that’s, I guess, the quintessential girl-on-girl act. (Or at least, it was, in the minds of two 16-year-old baby queers who watched too much The L Word.) She’d just purchased some blueberry cheesecake-flavored lube and, having never used lube before, decided one full handful each was the proper amount. We anointed our vulvas with this sticky elixir and then rubbed them together until our muscles ached and the slippery squelching sounds made us giggle so profusely we had to stop.

Next we attempted the centerpiece of our evening: strap-on sex. She suited up in her new harness and slipped a smallish grey silicone dildo through the O-ring. We tried one position, and then another, and another, but no matter what we tried, we couldn’t figure out how to get the dildo into me without hurting me. I’d already used a bigger dildo on myself plenty of times so the hymen hypothesis didn’t check out; it was seemingly an issue of angle and awkwardness.

Finally, we settled on the “cowgirl” position: me on top, astride my pal. I ground down against her for many minutes, looking for an angle that would give me any pleasure whatsoever, but I couldn’t find one. She seemed to be enjoying it, though, so I kept at it… for half an hour. We bucked and writhed in near-silence, just breathing and grunting and sweating. So much sweating. I literally dripped sweat onto her. I felt disgusting. But I couldn’t stop, because she was… into it? Maybe? I couldn’t tell.

When I finally collapsed in exhaustion beside her, I asked, “Did you come?” and she replied, totally mystified, “No. Did you?” Of course, I hadn’t. And the window for any further pleasure had closed, both of us being too overexerted to move, let alone get each other off. We fell into a deep, unsatisfied slumber, in a puddle of sweat, saccharine lube, and bemused disappointment.

The last truly bad sex I had happened last summer, 5 days after a breakup, which should’ve been my first clue it was ill-advised. A beardy Tinder bro talked my ear off at a bar for an hour about his career ambitions, his creative vocations, places he’d been, girls he’d fucked. He mocked the food I ordered, expressed zero sympathy when I mentioned I’d just been through a difficult split, and asked me literally nothing about myself.

And yet, somehow, I decided to go back to his apartment with him. I am not proud.

We smoked weed in his humid attic apartment and launched into messy makeouts, no romance or pretense whatsoever. He awkwardly tried to pin me down because I’d mentioned being submissive, but it felt hollow, perhaps because I’d dated an ardently dominant kinkster so recently and was still sad about it. He went down on me and unleashed a pointy, flicky tongue on my hypersensitive clit, causing me to squirm away and offer breathy suggestions like, “Can you do that slower and softer?” or “Can you focus on the side of my clit instead of right on it?” but he seemed confused by these directives and just kept at it.

After a few more minutes of this, I gave up and tried to transition things into good ol’-fashioned fucking, but neither of us seemed that enthused about his dick being inside me. Finally, he finished himself off on my chest and belly while we kissed. As we laid there in the smoky darkness afterward, he asked, “Did you come?” and I narrowly resisted the urge to exclaim, “LOL, nah, bro.”

Unsurprisingly, what both these bad-sex stories have in common is a lack of assertiveness and communication. There are good reasons for that: the culture we live in encourages us to keep quiet about sex, and also encourages female and feminine folks, in particular, to downplay our needs and focus on making other people happy. I don’t regret these experiences, and my other forays into bad sex, because I’ve learned a lot from every one of those encounters – but I like to think I’d be better at avoiding situations like these nowadays.

Alana Massey once wrote, in an essay about bad first dates, “This life is short and wild and precious, and people are spending way too much time on first dates that they need to skedaddle on out of as soon as they know things are heading south.” I think this sentiment applies to bad sex, too – though leaving any romantic or sexual interaction midway through is, obviously, easier said than done.

Bonus: here’s an interview I did with Lily Wilson, the author of In the Glow of the Lavalamp: Stories of Bad Sex and Other Misfortunes!

Kate Sloan: What made you want to write a book about bad sex?

Lily Wilson: I’d written a story about an incident that was hilariously bad. When I shared it, people began coming out of the woodwork saying, “OH! You won’t believe what happened to me!” They’d tell me their own stories. Many of these were funny. Bad sex happens more frequently than most people imagine; in fact, there’s a universal aspect to it. But we don’t often talk about it. An activity that involves so many complex interactions, so many things that can’t be controlled, is bound to go wrong some of the time. I began to collect the stories and get permission to write them down. They aren’t always funny, but I do love the humor – that’s what makes the disasters bearable.

KS: Assuming we’re talking about sex that is consensual and not coerced, what makes sex “bad”?

LW: Two categories of things can make it bad: 1) stuff that is out of the control of either participant, and 2) choices the participants make. Category One includes things like disasters: the roof falling in on top of you, a giant rat pouncing on the bed… Also in this category would be like illness, accidents, interruptions, that sort of thing. These stories are usually funny, at least in retrospect.

Category Two is more complicated; it covers choices the participants make. Mismatched desires and expectations are behind a lot of bad sex. If both people are not honest about what they want, there’s a strong possibility the sex will be lousy. If person A wants roleplaying, costumes, and trapezes, and person B wants something more basic, and either person fails to communicate, this is not going to go well, probably for either of them. Sometimes people want connection so badly they stifle their needs and desires and attempt to settle for whatever is on offer. Like, OK, I will do y and z, and hope that I can at least have a minute or two of j and k. This approach generally does not produce a happy ending.

Category Two also includes the degree to which each partner cares about the experience of the other. Most of us have been with someone who was completely oblivious to or unconcerned with how the sex was for us… It is very difficult to have a good experience with such a person.

KS: What’s your #1 piece of advice for avoiding bad sex?

LW: Communicate! Make sure your expectations are compatible. Two people don’t have to want exactly the same thing, but it’s important that your expectations don’t nullify theirs, and their expectations don’t make yours impossible to fulfill. Make sure your partner cares about how the experience is for you. That sounds almost too basic to bother stating it, but there are an astounding number of people in the world who seem to be unaware of/uninterested in what their partner experiences. You get to say “No, thank you” to such people.

Thanks so much to Lily for doing this interview and for writing such an interesting book! You can buy it on Kobo or check it out on Amazon here.

Heads up: this post was sponsored, and as always, all opinions and writing (save for Lily’s answers to my questions) are my own.